October 7th Tropo yeilds DTV #400

[KA9UVY]

Some of the nice Fall tropo in the South actually made it as far north as Southern Illinois last night and this morning. Even though it was raining during the event here and signals were not super strong or stable I was able to grab a few new DTV's out of TN.AL. and GA.
This morning as the rain increased and the signals were fading away I landed WDSI-DT 40 out of Chattanooga, TN for #400.

Also captured were:
WEMT-DT 38
WETP-DT 41
WTVM-DT 11
WABM-DT 36
WTTO-DT 28
WGCL-DT 19

A few others were also seen but they were ION or TBN's without proper identification shown on their PSIP so I will have to wait for a top of hour ID before I will count them.
It is rare here that Tropo holds up while it is raining and this opening reminded me of how rare this is here. I have only seen it a few times in all my years of DXing and it seems to only happen in the Fall events

[Danny]

Bob, congratulations on DTV # 400!

How many TBN and ION DTVs have you *not* counted over the past couple of years due to a lack of proper local PSIP IDs or local on-air IDs?

I know from personal experience that it can sometimes be a long wait for those supered text TOH on-air IDs on TBN, ION, Daystar, etc stations. I have on-air IDs and/or PSIP calls on tape from all of the the ones I've logged except KPXL-DT26, KDTX-DT45, and KOPX-DT50. KDTX-DT45 is a new easy catch here, so I don't think the wait will be very long for that one.

Not many years back, the PAX (ION) DTVs (like KPXB-DT5) put their calls in the PSIP data. I'm glad I caught a few of those.

[KA9UVY]

Danny, There were only a couple of those non ID type stations in last night and one was Jellico TN on 23.
Another was a Daystar with 7 virtual channels, on 38 I believe.
I have to say I usually get the ION's and TBN's eventually but KOPX was in a while back and solid until TOH as usual so there are a few still hanging out there for me.
I really have a hard time with getting TOH ID's on KET's and Oklahoma ETV stations.
I really think there should be an FCC rule on proper ID in PSIP and some enforcement action taken if not followed.
Then again getting that TOH ID is always a great challenge and that is what this hobby is all about. Hours of watching for a moment of Joy!

[Danny]

After looking through my DX records, I found that KDTX-DT45 (TBN) does have a PSIP calls ID.

Hopefully, a photo of KDTX and another DFW religious station, KTAQ-DT46, are attached. Note that KTAQ runs a continuous on-air ID upper right.

[NN2E]

Hi Bob,
Good deal on #400.
I had the antennas unhooked for the thunderstorm festivities so I didn't get any new ones this time. I did see several Memphis and Nashville stations, with the bedroom TV hooked to an indoor dipole antenna, so I knew something was up. I'm making a minor feedline change (replacing some RG-6 with RG-11) so I'm gonna have to wait for the storms to quit before I can get the big antennas back on line.
FWIW... KET ID's every station at once with a listing of every single KET transmitter in Kentucky. I can't remember the last time I saw an ID for a specific KET transmitter.
BTW... WDKA is supposed to re-clog channel 49 sometime this month. I've been trying to get everything I can on 49 before this happens.
I'm stuck at #333.
73, Ed NN2E
Owner / Operator - Murphy's Law Test Site & Thunderstorm Proving Grounds

[KA9UVY]

Danny, ED
I am not sure if some of the full power stations truly NEVER ID or not but I am pretty sure that a few low power ones DO not ever display visually their callsign.
Danny I have the ones you mentioned in Texas confirmed but I know that their are others in TX that were Telemundo that I confirmed only by TOH supered ID's.
Ed, The KET's that I still need are on plugged channels and only come in over the top for short duration periods and never seem to be at TOH.
I am uploading a couple of the stations that still elude a true video ID capture here but have been seen at times.

[Danny]

Bob, you and Ed receive some amazing DX.

It is not any of my business how you count stations. I admire DXers who have high standards. However, I count KLTM-DT13 based on the fact that it is the only LPB station on RF channel 13, and it is the only LPB station that remaps to channel 13. The manual tuning mode screen is proof of the reception. I can understand if you are holding out for an on-air ID. Unfortunately, LPB is like KET, IDing all stations at once.

As some of you know, I continue to DX like I'm in the Stone Age. My Web pages are based on "Fred Flintstone's Complete Guide to Building Stone Age Web Sites." And my ID photos are made on a camera that prints the pictures on slate. Most of all, I still like to record on-air IDs (in addition to PSIP IDs) when possible.

[KA9UVY]

Danny, only counting a visual ID is something I have always thought was a must. When I started DXing there was no internet and knowing who was where and on what channel was a real chore. I remember getting the entire TV station database on microfiche and an old reader to examine it with(what a pain).
We have come a long way since those days and it is easy to figure out who you are watching most of the time now but old habits die hard for me. I figure audio ID's are for radio not TV and to ID TV stations with a communications RX via carrier offset always seemed like a compromise to me.
As far as your web pages and such I don't need all kinds of swirling graphics or fancy nonsense I just need the facts and you seem to be the guy who is documenting everything in the TV DXing hobby on the web and I think your doing a great job.
Keep it up, I like to see how I stack up with everyone else.

[pjdyer]

Since I've always been mostly interested in documenting that a prop path existed vs collecting stations per se I'll take a definitive ident anyway it comes. Except in those bygone days of prolonged test patterns, audio idents (or local news/weather) were often more successful (unless, of the "This-is-Channel 2" variety :() than trying to decipher a miniscule call/logo somewhere on the screen. After getting the FT-847 in Oct 2002 I got many idents using it on Ch 3 audios when, for whatever reasons, there was only poor vid and/or nil audio on the TV set. (It was also very useful in Jun-Jul 2007 when KDLO-3 developed a problem that put their audio at 65.790 vs 65.740 MHz :)) I figured that since the audio needed a higher MUF that it was the more-difficult, propwise. All of that is mute now with ATSC.

I never counted any of my F2 non-NTSC TV (all those Band I BBC and French offset aud/vid, many E2 and R1 vid offsets, or ZL/VK TV vid/aud offsets) in any TV statistics - even though several were definite idents. With F2 dispersion effects seldom would those widely-separated aud/vid frequencies likely ever come in well at the same time.
http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/bbclvhf.htm
http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/frenchtv.htm
http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/vkch0.htm
http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/zltvch1.htm

73, Pat - WA5IYX

[KA9UVY]

Pat, documenting that a path existed and collecting the proof is what I feel a screen capture with ID does. You and I both know that these rare paths do pop up and if you on your toes you can catch them.
The screen capture is to show to someone else (non believers) potential operators to schedule with etc.
For years now I have been trying to get an ATV operator to sked with me from down there in TX. I have documented several near 1000 mile ducts into TX from here in S. IL by photos of TV stations some even low power but as they say you can lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink.
So now it is more of a collecting hobby than anything else I guess and my 35mm prints have been replaced by files on the computer.
I simply don't care for a picture of a TV screen that shows nothing about from where it came.
I was never fortunate enough to get any F2 analog DX but I also never counted any cuban or most canadian TV stations seen on E's here. I did manage several Mexican ID's through the years.

[Danny]

I simply don't care for a picture of a TV screen that shows nothing about from where it came.
I was never fortunate enough to get any F2 analog DX but I also never counted any cuban or most canadian TV stations seen on E's here. I did manage several Mexican ID's through the years.

Bob, thanks for your kind words about the Web pages

Although we might be old-fashioned about how we ID and count stations, there are some others in the WTFDA who agree about positive IDs. Counting Canada, Mexico, and Cuba TV stations based on offset and network just doesn't hit me right. Especially after I worked so hard to ID my logs the old fashioned way. TV in Mexico changes so often that IDing by offset and network is a haphazardly process.

[pjdyer]

With all of my TV ants having been in the 20' AGL range (or less) I've never had an optimum setup for tropo (compared to those with 7' UHF dishes on 60' towers). I'm just on the verge of #100 DTVs after 18 months at that. My F2 example on http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/tvdximg.htm was just to show a typical ghosty signal (probably from northern S. America). WB2CPA got great Euro TV results in Cycle 21 from NYC using highly-specialized/modified equipment to emulate their standards http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/wb2cpatv.htm. A lot of folks tried to get Fernando Garcia in Monterrey to become licensed and active on 2-m and 70-cm after his super tropo UHF TV-DX catches (Carolinas, etc) to no avail.

73, Pat - WA5IYX