Beginner FM Tuner?

[jlochey]

Hey gang,

Hi I'm an FM beginner with mostly AM/SWL experience, and really no FM DX'ing experience. The little FM DX'ing that I have been doing has been with high end portable SW Radios with NO EXTERNAL antenna. So needless to say, there is room for improvement! :)

I have received some excellent advice from a fellow member, and he rightfully suggested I buy an Onkyo T9090-II as my first receiver.

But those seem in short supply...

What would/do other members suggest or swear by in a beginner's first FM Tuner at a price of $400 or less???

Is it possible?

My next question will be about antennas! :D


Thank you very much!


John in Tecumseh, Michigan (a serious beginner!)
KC8JDI

[Russ-PA]

You'll likely get some responses from folks who have receivers to sell in that range. You can buy a very good used tuner of several brands and have narrow IF filters installed in that range.

One option you may want to consider is the Denon TU-1500RD which can be bought new within that price range, and is used by several members. Note however that the modification needed to install the narrower filters ( for better selectivity ) on any new tuner will likely void the warranty because most tuners aren't made with the idea of replacing the filters to they're 'hard-wired' rather than having sockets.

Several members here also use either the Yamaha T-80 or T-85 modified and also used, which can be purchased and modified as needed within that price range as well. I use a T-80.

[Mike-CT]

If you are looking for a tuner with good selectivity stock, the Onkyo T9090 is one of them. It comes stock with a couple of 150khz filters and has lots of features.

The Carver TX-11 shows up on eBay quite a bit. This tuner has 180khz filters in it stock and the specs were about 30db adjacent selectivity without any mod. You can pull the 180s and replace them with 150s or 110s and get much better selectivity, but sound quality suffers.

The Onkyo T450 RDS tuner can be found on eBay for under $200. It sounds great but you do need to put a couple of narrow filters in it so it can shine.

As a matter of fact, Onkyo has a whole line of digital tuners found on eBay that will work super if you change a filter or two to the 150khz or 110khz. I've done mods on a few and I've been happy with the results.

Check out the Yamaha T80 and T85. Guys use them and love them, but you do need to do filter mods to get the best selectivity out of them.

Russ mentioned the Denon. I did the mod to one, compared it to my T450RDS and selectivity was about the same on both. The Denon does show RDS faster than the Onkyo.

Check my webpage for some tuner reviews:
http://pages.cthome.net/fmdx

Find the link for the Tuner Information Center and read their tuner reviews.

Doing this should help you a great deal.

[John Wilke K9RZZ]

Beginner tuner? I'm using a Subaru car stereo ($35 on eBay) in the house with a 6 element beam ($ 35 ) on the roof. The rotator I already had and feedline is RG6. 105 stations logged this season so far without any real band openings. Can you do better? Sure, but for < $100 I'm having a blast !

;)

John K9RZZ
Milwaukee

[KW4RZ]

My first DXing radio in the shack is a Chrysler car stereo with 5 memories and a rotary tuning knob I picked up in a second hand store for $3. I power it with my DC power supply already in place for the Ham gear.
The antenna is a dipole made from scrap wire and coax and is hanging in a tree by fishing line. Total cost.. about $6. DX heard.. when E skip is in, Just about everything I can hear on the fancy $240 Denon TU1500 and directional antenna will come in on the old car radio too. For weak signals like tropo often is, and meteor scatter and getting in next to locals that splatter over you need a better tuner with IF filter mod. I also have an Onkyo T-450RDS as Mike in CT described. It's a great rig too but I don't find it as sensitive as the Denon TU1500RD. RDS is nice. Both of these tuners have it.

Check around Ebay. I bought both the Denon and the Onkyo on eBay. I paid $70 for my T-450RDS

[Mike-CT]

We all have to start somewhere. This is a picture of my 2nd DX radio. When I was a kid, I asked my parents for this. This little Zenith was head-and-shoulders better than my first radio (although I used to listen to Joe Niagara on 94.1 WIBG-FM before getting on the school bus). I can't believe I still have this radio and it still works! It has screw terminals for an antenna, and I used an outdoor dipole with it. It's analog, of course, and is decent if you turn off the AFC. This set goes back to the middle '60s.

I didn't always have good stuff to DX with. We all started with simple stuff.

[capitalgold]

Geez... I cant even remember the first rig I heard Es on.... and I'm not that old! :)

I had a hand-me-down Pioneer Centrex stereo rcvr (with an 8-track recorder!) that was probably my first decent radio. It had very good sensitivity on FM & AM, but lousy selectivity. Still have a similar model out in the shed.

Currently, I run two Kenwood KT-615's, one stock and one that Mike modified for me. As long as you aren't in a strong signal area, these tuners do particularly well for the price (I paid $25 and $20 respectively for them). But unfortunatley, both have come down with scratchy tuner syndrome that no amount of tuner cleaner seems to cure for more than 24 hours.
I also have a Mitsubishi FA-D10 which is on par with a typical 4 gang tuner. Got it for $15 off of ebay in VGC, and it only needed a minor realignment to make it sweet. Filter mods would be nice, but it does a really nice job in stock form. This was the unit I snagged the Dominican Republic with a couple of years back (and Bermuda and the Bahamas too).

I also have a Pioneer TX-9800II somewhere around here in storage, but it needs tuner repairs and I havent used it in ages. Despite that, I'll never part with it. Lousy build quality, but a great rcvr.

No T-85's or L-02T's here (yet), but I've found that you can still get good DX'ing results very much on the cheap.

[John Wilke K9RZZ]

We all have to start somewhere. This is a picture of my 2nd DX radio. When I was a kid, I asked my parents for this. This little Zenith was head-and-shoulders better than my first radio (although I used to listen to Joe Niagara on 94.1 WIBG-FM before getting on the school bus). I can't believe I still have this radio and it still works! It has screw terminals for an antenna, and I used an outdoor dipole with it. It's analog, of course, and is decent if you turn off the AFC. This set goes back to the middle '60s.

I didn't always have good stuff to DX with. We all started with simple stuff.

Looks like the perfect radio for a "three hour tour ... a three hour tour" on a boat.

:laughing:

John K9RZZ

[alins]

Of the tuners mentioned above by Mike (plus the Denon TU-1500RD), which one is the best for FM DX in terms of raw performance (selectivity, sensitivtiy, ...), unmodded (no filter replacements)? A ranking would be very useful!

Also, how difficult is the filter replacement on these models, say the Onkyo T-450RDS? What skills are needed, can I get help anywhere if I were to do it ...

Any comments will be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks for your time and help!

Alins

[Mike-CT]

I have to rely on memory here...but the Carver supposedly had around 30db adjacent channel selectivity out of the box. Not a MacIntosh, but not shabby. One we didn't mention was the Onkyo T-9090 or 9090 Mk II, which came stock with 150khz filters and outperformed the Carver out of the box. Everything else we mentioned needed the filters to get good selectivity.

The T450 RDS was very easy to mod. Just heat up a soldering iron, desolder a couple of filters, plug in the narrow filters and resolder. The Denon was a bear to do because of all the SMCs (surface mounted components) under the board. I was expecting all the components to be on top of the board like the T450 and I was faked out. I did one...but I won't do another. Too many small parts, too close together.

If I were you, I'd buy a low wattage soldering pencil at R. Shack and practice heating up solder on some junk components or wire. When you get good at creating a good solder joint, then tackle a tuner.

[alins]

Thank you Mike. How about the Yamaha T-80? Anybody here have one or used one?

[Jeff-MA]

I use the Yamaha T-80, and I modified it myself. It was not hard at all. I know many other DXers use the T-80 as well.

[Russ-PA]

I've used the T-80 for a few years now. I believe Bill Nollman did the mods on it. I've been very happy with it, and I live in a strong signal area, with most of the local FMs within 12 miles, and all 'downhill'. At this point, I'm not certain what filters are in it....

Russ

[Fredn]

I got a Onkyo T-450RDS off of Mike B's advice 3 years ago, and love it as a DX tuner. I haven't modded mine yet, but even with the stock filters, I have had great success with it. I got mine for about $75 on eBay and would recommend it to anyone. It is especially useful because of its dial, which allows you to switch from preset freq to preset freq very easily, and also has RDS, which can help you with some IDs. I also have a Onkyo 4711 RDS, which is a step up from the 450, in my opinion, but could not comment on how easy it is to mod.

The first thing to do, if you haven't already, is to make a list of what open frequencies you have, particularly on the low end of the band. Program those empty freqs into your tuner, so you know where to at least start looking when there is an opening for Es.

Next, I would go through each freq, even the one that has stations, and make a log as to its freq, call letters, RDS display if any, station format, where it is broadcasting from, and what its format is. That way, if you do have some particularly strong Es, you can tell if a local is being wiped out with something from way out. I've had E's from Texas that have completely wiped out the strongest stations in my locality, so it is possible.

Since the season is starting, don't waste too much time finding or working on the perfect antenna. Get something up fast and easy, and then once you have that, start working on something bigger and better if you like.

For a down and dirty antenna, just get a simple FM dipole antenna (that comes with almost every stereo), and 'extend' the T fully. Stretch out the 'top' of the T along a thin piece of wood or plastic, and the put it outside a window, or right next to a window on the indoors, if you have to, and hook it up to your tuner. You'll be amazed with what you can pick up with it, and it beats the pants off of almost all of those amplified AM/FM antennas you see selling for $20 and more in stereo and electronic stores.

Good luck, and enjoy the hobby!

Fred